State of the Human: Mythologizing

In this episode, we search for myths in the modern world. We ask-- where are monsters hiding, and who created them? What do the myths we circulate say about ourselves?

Transcript for Mythologizing (Full Episode)

Elaine Treharne: [00:00:00] So I used to smoke. I would go out, I'd be working on Beowulf say, and I would go outside for a cigarette in the night. And you know, the British winters, it's dark at 3:00 PM and it gets light again about 8:00 AM right? And I'd be having a cigarette and I'd think about Beowulf, and I would have to.

Just immediately stomp out the cigarette. Run inside, lock the door. Lock the door. Lock the door. Because I'd frighten myself because I could imagine a monster coming down the side of the house. I mean, it's ridiculous. There's no kid thing about it.

I am most afraid of any monster that's lurking in the shadows.

I'm Elaine Treharne. I'm a medievalist, and most particularly an Anglo-Saxonist. And actually more important than anything else, I'm Welsh. So I was born in Aberystwyth and that kind of, uh identifies me to a T. A monster is either something that is unlike us or, uh, an identifiably human figure whose actions and behaviors are unintelligible, deeply evil, inspired by malice. And cause harm.

But I think women are labeled monstrous by by male authors, male politicians who don't understand them and fear them and or who are suspicious of their permeable bodies, their kind of leaky bodies. We see this a lot in medieval, high medieval texts, male authors who clearly feel deeply afraid of women and what women can make those men feel.

So in the case of of Grendel's mother, she's seeking vengeance [00:02:00] for her son. So she has motivation and it's intelligible. That if your child was killed or harmed, you would, a mother would seek some form of retribution. So that motivation is intelligible. Grendel's mother does not act out of an, uh, a premeditated evilness, right?

It's within the kind of code of vengeance for the loss of one's relative. Lady Macbeth doesn't physically do anything. She doesn't kill anyone. She's inspirational to a killer. And I think there are probably many other instances of a woman goading a man on, uh, in terms of acquisition of power through, um, destruction or, uh, kind of barbaric acts.

Um, but so, so generally speaking, historically women have been less responsible for the enactment of monstrosity or so it's actual enacting or, um, have, have been provided with motivation in some, in some way. Even if what happens to them then is that they are. Hunted down and executed.

Through history, I think women have been brutally attacked when they don't abide by social, moral, theological codes that are enacted by men for men. So women who exemplify some kind of prophetic power, for example, who, who are able to cure, who do things that aren't, what's acceptable, then they are labeled as miscreants, retches, witches, and hags.

And actually I'm over 50. And when you get to over 50 currently in society, you, [00:04:00] you are, you are made monstrous. Aging is monstrous for women. I think it's. Not utterly desirable for men either, but it doesn't result in the same kinds of societal attitudes, which currently are to completely ignore that middle-aged woman.

She's rendered invisible.

The fact that women make you feel lustful is the, is is the woman's fault. And of course we see that now in, um, in contemporary descriptions, of court cases that are dealing with, um, rape or sexual harassment or assault. It's the woman's, it's the woman's fault for being a seductress. So it's still very, it isn't just medieval, it's still very prevalent in society.

So I don't think society's progressing particularly well at all in, in terms of our social and cultural codes. We're not burned at the stake anymore, but women are still. Punished simply by virtue of being . 

Ahinoam Pollack: I got this job interview in Midland, Texas. You really can't fly to these locations in Texas. So they said, oh, can you come in two weeks to this place for the interview? And I was like, oh yeah, of course I can. They're like, oh, do you have a car? Oh my God, I have to buy a car within two weeks.

I'm Noe or Ahinoam Pollack. . I am a third year PhD student in the Energy Resources Engineering department.

He was planning to do more fixes to it before he sold it. He was just initially putting it on Craiglist before it was really ready, and I was like, no, no, it's good. It's good. I'm gonna take it. I was thinking, oh, it's, it's a Honda.

It must be okay. I don't think he mentioned. The quantity and quality of the fixes that needed to be done, the window wouldn't even go down. Like you [00:06:00] just would press and it'd be like the window would just fall into the car. I call her Lady Krishna. Lady Krishna, like Lady Gaga. Lady  Krishna Was very powerful.

I felt I was queen of the world and Lady Krishna was that powerful person who was like taking me out there.

Then the car stopped working like in the middle of the road. All the gauges went down to zero. Luckily I had like roadside assistance and we were in the middle of the boonies, like near, what is that place with the aliens in New Mexico, Roswell. I wasn't even next to Roswell. I was like two hours from Roswell. So we actually got towed. I think it was like one of the longest places you could get towed, like in the United States.

My interview was the next day and also it was a Sunday. There was one Auto zone or, or Riley's open. I got this battery cleaner. I scraped a lot of rust off of the, um, what are those, like little sticks that come outta the battery called. And then the car magically started again and I drove like, just like as fast I possibly could, and I came an hour late to the interview and um, I got the job.

I showed off my car. Yeah, this is my car. I've had it for years.

Then it happened again. That little battery post cleaning did not actually solve the problem. Like, and this is just like so scary. You're on a highway, there's other cars around you going super fast. And then I realized I have to take it to a mechanic. And the guy, I was like, you have a problem with a ignition switch and it'll cost you [00:08:00] $500. $500? Like no.

At that point, I went onto YouTube, looked around, I saw there was this tutorial, how to fix the ignition switch, and it was only 20 minutes long. Like, wow, 20 minutes. That was it. I was gonna go and, and fix it. And we just followed, follow the tutorial, went sit in the car, raining outside, had this box around the steering wheel, the steering wheel a bit lower. All these wires were were taking them out, and we were having trouble putting all the pieces back together.

I can totally see my obituary, like girl fixes her own car on her own drives to Santa Fe, uh, dies because the fix she made was a total disaster.

I did not have the confidence of a engineer. I didn't have such a great experience. Maybe in my bachelor's degree, you sit in class, you solve some problems, you know, s you know mx plus B, and you never feel like you have a impact on the world 'cause you're just doing all these exercises. When I was fixing Lady Krisna, I think for the first time I, I really felt like an engineer.

When I was turning the ignition switch and then like the car light came back to life, I was so happy. You have to just be willing to, to try and to venture into that uncertain space. That gave me a lot of confidence, uh, or excitement even from engineering. Like sometimes you may think of a mechanic or real engineers, like they have this magic about them.

Like, no, there, there is no magic. You're just connecting things. There's no like golden [00:10:00] hands. 

Scott Bukatman: It's just weird to like go to Disneyland and everybody's wearing a superhero t-shirt, and it used to be that I was the only person wearing superhero t-shirts. And yeah, it's caused me quite the sartorial crisis. I am Scott Bukatman, professor of film studies and comic studies at Stanford University.

Growing up, superheroes were a fanboy thing. It wasn't this global powerhouse idea of the superhero that we have now. I didn't want my folks to know how many comics I was buying. I don't think I wanted them to know how much time I spent reading them. Comics are these things. You hold them in the hand, fold it up, you put it under your pillow.

Old-Timey Commercial Narrator: If you're looking for adventure this summer, escape with Marvel comics.

Scott Bukatman: You read them furtively, you pass them around, you talk to your friends. The comic books themselves were disreputable and their disreputability was a big part of their appeal.

Old-Timey Commercial Narrator: And with Marvel comics, you're never alone because they can go with you in the car or to the park even on a rainy day. Marvel--

Scott Bukatman: Marvel Comics, in particular, I think really fostered this sense of belonging to a community. What Jack Kirby and Stan Lee did in the 1960s was they created monstrous superheroes. I'm talking about The Thing in the Fantastic Four, who is this sort of powerful, monstrous figure.

Old-Timey Commercial Narrator: A fantastic four starring The Thing with the strength of a thousand men.

Scott Bukatman: The thing that turns into a big rocky being while his teammates change in various ways, but they're still pretty much human looking.

Old-Timey Commercial Narrator: Fantastic!

The Thing: What kind of a thing have I turned into?

Scott Bukatman: And he is constantly trying to turn himself back into Ben Grim, the person he was before.

The Thing: Look at me![00:12:00] 

Scott Bukatman: And the Hulk is another one.

Cartoon Voice Over: Dr. Banner!

Scott Bukatman: Where the Hulk is a kind of monstrous alter ego for Bruce Banner.

Cartoon Voice Over: Now might be a really good time for you to get angry.

Bruce Banner: I'm always angry.

Scott Bukatman: And then the X-Men,

Cartoon Voice Over: Ladies and gentlemen, we are now seeing the beginnings of another stage of human evolution.

Scott Bukatman: All of the mutants are considered monstrous in some way or another.

Cartoon Voice Over: We must know who they are and above all what they can do.

Scott Bukatman: So they're sort of. Cursed by that and trying to figure out how to navigate the world even as they're perceived as monsters.

Cartoon Voice Over: The truth is that Newtons are very real.

Scott Bukatman: In the 1960s when those characters were appearing, they were all like metaphors for puberty.

Cartoon Voice Over: What kind of place is this?

Scott Bukatman: You know, suddenly your body is changing. You're not fully in control of it, and you don't know whether you're gonna fit in.

Cartoon Voice Over: Who are you people?

Scott Bukatman: Maybe when you look in the mirror, you see something horrible looking back at you. When you read a superhero comic, you are identifying with a somewhat freakish body. The monstrous people who are reading comics, they're every one of us.

Cartoon Voice Over: Even though you've been raised as a human being, you are not one of them. You have great powers.

Scott Bukatman: I like to think that I'm a little bit of a monster. I'm the only person at Stanford with this many comic books in their office. I'm literally moving academic books out and comics in. That's like my self identity is to sort of just do this academic thing a little bit differently and be a monster in just the most benign way. I'm not burning down the institution, but I am trying to show my students that there are other ways to be a scholar.

Cartoon Voice Over: What is he doing? He's beginning to [00:14:00] believe.

Scott Bukatman: I was the monster in my life. That's a horrible cliche. If you end with it, I'm coming after you. 

Michaela Elias: This summer I traveled to Iceland.

Unknown Speaker: I have a question. Yeah,

Michaela Elias: I heard it was beautiful.

Unknown Speaker: This has never happened before. I was putting in a password so I could open up and take a picture,

Michaela Elias: but here's the real reason I went,

Unknown Speaker: and every time I press one number, another one lights up and it won't let me open.

Michaela Elias: I was hoping to meet some elves.

Ragga Jonsdottir: Yeah, that's a very, I'm sorry, very elfy. They have this kind of humor, so, okay. Well if you try again, now that you've talked about this, it might work.

Michaela Elias: I'm on an elf tour with Raga, who claims to see and communicate with elves and introduces visitors to the elf population in a small park near her house.

Icelandic elves are pretty human-like and don't resemble the pointier creatures seen in TV and movies. As we are standing on a lookout over thundering waterfall, I asked some fellow travelers about their experiences with Icelandic nature.

Traveler 1: What is most impressive is the difference of the colors. You change between the greens to the browns, to the whites. This is all colors in one picture. This is amazing.

Traveler 2: We just saw a rainbow being bounced off a waterfall. With the sunlight in the background, and it's just absolutely phenomenal.

Michaela Elias: Many people also mentioned that the landscape felt otherworldly.

Traveler 3: It really feels like you're on another planet, essentially.

Traveler 4: It looks a bit like Mars, like what we picture Mars to look like.

Michaela Elias: Recently, the elfs have received a lot of publicity surrounding construction projects in Iceland that have been postponed or canceled because of the damage they would do to elf habitats. It is believed that the elves live in nature, usually under rocks and [00:16:00] trees. And so the development of the landscape means the destruction of their homes.

Ragga Jonsdottir: Well, you don't wanna damage a home when you see a whole family living in that home. Uh, so a rock, a lava area is, you want to protect it for many reasons. It's beautiful for the human eyes to look at. Uh, it's historical, you know, and there is a family living there, or there is an elf church. You don't wanna destroy that. So it, it works together.

Michaela Elias: But I still have not met any elves. I asked some tourists if they had had better luck. Have you heard about elves in Iceland at all? 

Traveler 3: The what?

Michaela Elias: Elves, the culture of folklore and elves and trolls.

Traveler 3: Yes.

Michaela Elias: Yeah. No. What can you tell us about the elves?

Traveler 2: One got me the other day and asked me for some silver coin. But I might have been, I don't know, confused or drunk. Not sure.

Traveler 3: But I think it's so funny.

Ragga Jonsdottir: I grew up believing in elves and people we didn't see.

Michaela Elias: I met a woman who worked at a puffin museum and who was able to give me some insight as to where I might find them.

Ragga Jonsdottir: Uh, just last night. But it didn't happen. We were talking about it with my parents and in-laws. We were telling stories that, like in my house that I grew up in, there was an elf cave behind it. And when they were. Trying to build the house. The machine always broke down when it's trying to dig into the uh, cave there, then they have to move the house further down to don't interrupt the elves. So yeah, it's very rich in our beliefs.

Michaela Elias: Iceland was originally settled by Vikings from Scandinavia who brought their language, culture, and religion. Even after Iceland was Christianized. Many of these beliefs persisted.

This [00:18:00] is Terry Gunnel, a professor of folklore at the University of Iceland. He studies the nature of these beliefs and how and why they develop and evolve. I asked Terry about what was at the heart of this belief in elves.

Terry Gunnel: People are living in a landscape where you can, your house could be knocked down by something you can't see through a, through a volcano or, or a, an earthquake. Um, you turn on your taps and, and you get the smell of sulfur coming out, underlining just below your feet. There is lava alive. Um, you can hear Glassier talk and you can see this effect that they've had on the landscape. You hear them growling as they move through the land. Uh, you go to the hot springs and you hear them duck talking. You look at the sky and you see the Northern lights.

So people are very aware that there is power out there.

Michaela Elias: As I continued on my quest and asked more and more Icelanders about the elves, it became clear that perspectives on this issue range across a vast spectrum. On one end are the clairvoyance, are the people who can see and communicate with elves, people like Ragga.

Ragga Jonsdottir: I met a small elf once. He was very young and he asked, he looked at me with his big eyes and he was really surprised, and he said, are you a human? And I said, yes. So humans exist. He said, I thought it was only in my grandmother's stories. So they have stories like that. But that was fun for both of us, I think though.

Michaela Elias: But when you ask many Icelanders, if they have had experiences with elves, you usually get this. I won't say yes and I won't say no kind of response.

Icelander 1: We were, uh, gathering the sheep from the mountains. So I had this horse, it's called because he is a brown, and we were just walking and nothing was going on. And then we came suddenly to a big stone and uh, certainly the horse stopped. He's 20 years old. He was born up in these [00:20:00] mountains, done that hundreds of times. Suddenly he stopped and I was trying to pull him and he wouldn't go near the stone.

I don't know why. So when I came down, I asked the people, was it earthquake? Why did the horse behave like that? And everybody smiled because they, they didn't have any answer about that. So if you ask me, was something there, well, some, everyone has to answer for themselves. Yeah.

Michaela Elias: And if the desire to save the elf population wasn't enough to encourage the preservation of the landscape, there are other examples of nature retaliating when harmed. One of the first things most people notice about Iceland is the lack of trees. I spoke to Oddur Sturluson, the project manager for Startup Tourism, an incubator for businesses addressing tourism in Iceland.

Oddur Sturluson: For example, there are not many trees in Iceland, but according to historical sources, when Icelander got here originally there were a bunch of trees here, but this is where like the time of the Vikings, so they just, I mean, they just cut them all down to make houses or boats, and at that time they could live considerably farther inland. But when they cut down all these trees, it meant that the soil eroded or make it considerably more difficult to live inland, which is why you see a lot of these deserts.

So this sort of bleak environment, we know that it's already been affected directly by us in a way that made it almost impossible for us to live here. So Icelandic people are very, um, protective because they know that it doesn't take much to change things for the worse.

Michaela Elias: Historically, there has not been much need for development in Iceland since there are only 300,000 people in a country, roughly the size of Ohio.

And until recently, most of the visitors to Iceland were extreme adventure types, but due to cheaper flights, a highly publicized volcanic eruption in 2010, and the appearance of the landscape in many popular movies and TV shows, Iceland's obscurity is now a thing of the past. In 2016, 2 million people visited [00:22:00] Iceland.

I asked some locals what the increase in tourism has been like for them.

Icelander 1: It's like a flood.

Icelander 2: Yeah. There are a lot of people now. It's crazy how much people it is. Some of the places are so crowded that you don't want to go there anymore,

Icelander 3: and the change has been crazy. The tourism has, uh, seriously affected the, the, the country. I think I, I think 'cause Iceland's quite a fragile place, it's quite a small place, small population. I have to, uh, think very carefully about how you accommodate the new, uh, levels of tourism.

Michaela Elias: So maybe the solution is to implement regulations to slow tourism, but it's not that simple. In 2008, Iceland suffered from a bank crash, which led to an unprecedented recession.

Icelander 4: Tourism has been the factor in us gaining an economic foothold. Again, it has been the, uh, creating factor behind job creation, and it has influenced, of course, all around the country. So. It has been the driving force behind getting Iceland out of the recession.

Michaela Elias: So tourism has definitely boosted the Icelandic economy. While it is fairly easy for more tour companies to meet rapidly increased demand, it is almost impossible to install infrastructure and implement conservation measures in such a short time.

I am on a tour which has promised to take us to remote locations that few have visited, but as more visitors seek wilderness, untouched places are increasingly harder to find.

Tour Guide: Now we're gonna walk through where the sensitive mall summer is very wet, you know, and one footstep can leave a, a long, long imprint. So, so then we try to use the stone. So please try to, you know, uh, walk, walk in.

Michaela Elias: Until recently, same place was so unpopulated. There was no real need for laws governing where people are allowed to hike or camp. But with the increase in tourism that has a focus on adventure and wild experiences, this lack of regulation is becoming less and less feasible.

Icelander 1: Over the period of my life, as long as I lived, we had have that [00:24:00] benefit to have the nature and go wherever we want to, almost. So we can go quite far, hiking. People can go almost everywhere. So, um, that's the change now because, uh, they're closing more and more areas now. So we are getting used to not to go where we could go before.

Michaela Elias: As it stands now, the lack of infrastructure presents a danger for visitors who may not have a thorough understanding of the landscape go by ourselves.

Tour Guide: Well, if you go onto the glacier, then that's dangerous. No, but, uh, only for this, we can walk through here. Well, there, there is, there is no, no road, no trailer. But you, you can like drive this road, but it's kind of rough in some places it's not, and it's not dangerous.

Oddur Sturluson: A lot of people that come out here, they don't really know the environment and they go out into it. And then you have a lot of situations where you have like a lot of the, um, like search and rescue and whatnot are having to go help people in a lot of circumstances because they'll. Go up to these areas thinking that it, it's okay, but without knowing the full, you know, background on the area. So it can, it can be also kind of drastic in that sense. It can be a little dangerous.

Michaela Elias: But the tension is that if sites are made more accessible, that will mean more visitors to these wilderness areas.

Guðmundur Robinson: Okay. Um, my name is Guðmundur Robinson. Uh, I'm like a park manager here at, which is a part of, uh, Thingvellir National Park in Iceland.

Michaela Elias: To get to this park, you have to drive down a gravel road for 15 miles or so. So this area is not frequently visited right now. I talked to Guðmundur about how the park might change with better roads and infrastructure.

Guðmundur Robinson: Uh, there is this idea, or it's, it has already started building a proper road. Between this area, it would connect as perge more with the ring road. And I guess that would increase the number a lot, uh, which is in some ways good, but [00:26:00] also a challenge to protect what we have here. The nature, the quietness, the stillness around, and when the road is ready. We will have a job to do.

Michaela Elias: He also talked about the possibility of building more than just roads in the Highland.

Guðmundur Robinson: Now there are some ideas to build hotels in the Central Islands, which are like totally different from the current in infrastructure.

Michaela Elias: And what do you think about that?

Guðmundur Robinson: It's just crazy. I think it would just be, be very damaging for, for the central Highlands and how they are perceived. They're, they are seen as, as a wilderness. They're seen as a, a rough place. Nobody lives there. It's impossible to live there. So in that way, people have this respect for the island. They understand it's a dangerous place, but still a fascinating place and.

Michaela Elias: Do you think that's a huge part of Icelandic culture that might be lost?

Guðmundur Robinson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Although I'm not sure that, uh, not everybody understands this value, but it'll would completely destroy it.

Michaela Elias: It is precisely the roughness of the landscape and the melding of the magnificent, with the formidable that has inspired the belief in hidden nature creatures. Which is so essential to Icelandic culture and identity.

Icelander 2: We like it the way it is a little bit raw. We shouldn't, you know, have to sugarcoat it for other people to come and visit because they're coming to see that

Icelander 4: places like this, you know, you, you stand here and you don't see anybody. It's not very common because when you travel Europe, there's farm, farm. You always see, you know, man in, everywhere. Everywhere you go. But here you don't. It's just nature unspoiled. So that's the appeal for me anyway. Um, I just like being out there and just hearing the wind, the water running and nobody [00:28:00] honking or traffic or, you know, you need to get away from that.

Michaela Elias: And it is not only the landscape that is at stake, but the nuanced role of the elves in Icelandic culture is at risk of being lost as Iceland adapts to the increase in tourism.

Oddur Sturluson: Icelanders of course, realized that the, the, the rest of the world was interested in their beliefs and they were quite amused by this, um, that anybody should be interested in their, their sense that the landscape is alive, uh, and is personified in these figures. Uh. And so, yeah, that they're prepared to, um, talk about it and, and to tell stories for, for tourists if, if it keeps the tourists happy.

So you'll have places like, you'll have Elf Walks and you'll have a town Hanafi, which has a sign calling itself the Elf Town. So this is really playing off those beliefs, but something more for outsiders.

Michaela Elias: So something must be done if the Icelandic landscape is going to be preserved. Steiner Kal is the project manager of Halendid Iceland National Park, an NGO, which is gathering various interest groups to petition for the creation of a national park, which would encompass the entire Highland region.

Tour Guide: You 

Michaela Elias: have Black sand desserts. You have lava fields, you have volcanoes in the distance, you have glaciers, you have, uh, lush wetlands. You have this neon green moss, powerful glacial rivers, uh, sensitive, colorful geothermal areas. So the variety that you experience in the Highland is unique.

The organization has formed a coalition of stakeholders ranging from nature conservation groups to outdoor recreation and tourism companies, which have vested interest in the Highland. They recently released a statement of intent that shows the vision they have for a national Highland Park.

Terry Gunnel: I think a highland park that covers 40% of this island, uh, could be, uh. Exemplary to other nations in terms of [00:30:00] conservation.

Michaela Elias: But despite the worries and the growing pains that Iceland is experiencing, there's incredible potential for environmental education and awareness to reach visitors from around the world.

Traveler 1: I think that's the most important thing, is to really try to connect with nature in a different kind of way, and seeing the glaciers, it's like, oh my goodness, global warming is real.

Traveler 2: Uh, I just think it's important for people to understand as, particularly as tourists. I feel that you can arrive on mass to a country, not respect it. Whereas when you come to Iceland and everything is so pure, so beautiful, you don't want to do anything that will in any way harm it.

Michaela Elias: So the future of the Icelandic landscape hangs in the balance, but what about the future of the hidden inhabitants and protectors of the landscape? What about the elves? It's essentially.

Terry Gunnel: What's happening when, when people are telling their children about the hidden people that live in the rocks here and there is that they're giving their children a sense of, um, responsibility for the landscape. The idea that the landscape is not something you just destroy, it's alive and it's got, it's got a magic to it.

It's got a spirit to it. Um, and, and that it's the children ought to have respect for the landscape that they're living in. Um. So this is, uh, this, this will go on and if this, this, this is, uh, something that gives magic to the landscape of Iceland, adding to the actual magic that's already in the landscape. So certainly it's, it's connected to having respect for the world that you live in.

Michaela Elias: The morning I was supposed to leave Iceland, I was awakened by the sounds of the wind ferociously whipping against the window panes of the hostile where I was staying. Through sleepy eyes. I half expected to see an elf looking at me from the other side of the window as I lay in bed praying that I was not caught in the midst of a severe storm and that I would be able to get back home that day.

I was [00:32:00] struck by how truly impossible it was to ignore the vitality of nature in Iceland.

Ragga Jonsdottir: Nature in Iceland is very much alive. You can't ignore it. You know we are now waiting for next eruption. I hope you get to your plane before that happens. So you know, even if no matter what you dress up for city life, we still have earthquakes and fierce wind and you know, will volcano eruption. So we know that nature is alive.

Michaela Elias: To see pictures of the Highland and find out more about conservation efforts. Visit Halendid is, that's H-A-L-E-N-D-I-D .